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Subject: Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #583
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Women-in-Hockey Digest Tuesday, January 18 2000 Volume 01 : Number 583
In this issue:
excuse me! polite?
Re: excuse me! polite?
Viloence in hockey
clearing the slot
Re: clearing the slot
Re: Concussions (was -- girl's and violence in hockey)
Sr. Women's tournament in Ohio
RE: excuse me! polite?
RE: Viloence in hockey
Re: excuse me! polite?
RE: excuse me! polite?
NCAA
To: email@hidden
Chicago Ice "Black and Blue" Tournament
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Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 21:14:49 -0500
From: Barbara Bartholomew
Subject: excuse me! polite?
>Obviously you're talking about the polite version of lacrosse played on
>fields by college boys and girls. I recall a local field tournament in which
>private schoolgirls from the UK visited Victoria...no protective gear and on
>the field banter featured the refrain "I say, pass the ball, Emma!".
>
>You haven't encountered box lacrosse as played in B.C. and Ontario!
>(Girl's/women's boxla leagues are starting up, too!)
What I mean is that it's not necessarily the nature of the game, the
constant whacking on already tender parts, even the broken noses that might
have been intentional, because lacrosse, the way I've seen it, with all the
slashing and colliding (same as hockey, without as much protection, and
without the give of ice) that occurs, doesn't result in lots of fights.
You say there is lacrosse with lots of fighting, but what matters is
there's lacrosse happening in the same rough way, without fighting. So
that means it's part of the culture of hockey, or of the lacrosse you've
seen, to have fights. I'm not saying that's good or bad, I don't really
know. I play with women, and they mostly don't fight, so I don't care what
other people do. I wouldn't even want to play with people who take winning
so seriously that they get frustrated and fight. I guess I'm too old for
that.
There's a big difference between college hockey fights and NHL fights, too.
I am mildly entertained when college boys go at it. It's silly but fun,
and I just think, why did the player on my home team take the risk of
incurring penalty, which may result in losing the game?
The bruises I've seen from hockey can't compete with the ones I've seen
from lacrosse. If you'd seen my son David with blood covering his face and
jersey and shorts, and his nose on the side of his face, you wouldn't say
it was polite lacrosse!
But it's fun to talk with you all about it.
Barbara Bartholomew
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 22:37:32 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: excuse me! polite?
In a message dated 1/17/00 8:18:42 PM Central Standard Time, email@hidden
writes:
<< What I mean is that it's not necessarily the nature of the game, the
constant whacking on already tender parts, even the broken noses that might
have been intentional, because lacrosse, the way I've seen it, with all the
slashing and colliding (same as hockey, without as much protection, and
without the give of ice) that occurs, doesn't result in lots of fights. >>
I played varsity lacrosse in HS - and it was far from polite. It was a very,
very, very brutal game. There is ZERO padding in girls/women;s lacrosse -
as in NO brain bucket, NO shoulder pads, and NO gloves. (not to mention that
we had to wear these dorky little plaid skirts, but let's not get into
that.)
In general, the rule re: contact in girl;'s lacrosse re: contact is quite
simple - You are, in theory, not allowed to check, (no hitting with your
body,or with your stick). STICK -checking is allowed ( you can hit the
opponent;s stick with your stick), but you cannot violate the imaginary
2-foot bubble around the opponent;s head. ( i.e. if the opponent carries the
stick in close, you cannot whack the part of the stick directly in front of
her nose, forcing the stick to hit her in the face.)
What DID this allow us to do? Quite simple - when stick checking, we would
go for the opponent's knuckles - not only would this cause them undo pain,
but they would inevitably drop the ball. (we were very stupid kids - I
cannot agree with this strategy now!)
I have played in one game with the following list of injuries to my
teammates: broken nose, black eye, broken finger, assorted bruises. . I
was so disheartened by the rash of injuries (most of which were due to dirty
play) that I quit the team - even though This was towards the end the season
in my senior year and we only had a few games left.
With all of this, I have never seen a fight break out. I had friends on
the boys lacrosse team, and I have never seen them fight either. It
[tolerating fighting] seems to be unique to hockey.
And if you think getting hit with a hockey puck is painful - try getting
pelted with a lacrosse ball!
Jill
# 77 LI Hurricanes
# 77 Chicago Ice
(Formerly # 10 Syosset Braves Lacrosse)
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:33:46 -0800
From: "Tanya & Patrick Martin"
Subject: Viloence in hockey
Here's my 2 cents, even though it is not going to win me any popularity
contests. I do not agree at all with fighting. It has no place in hockey.
My children, (1 boy & 2 girls) know the rules ... fight and you do not play.
It takes a bigger person to skate away. This doesn't mean not to play
aggressive or physical. I played for years with boys and took the odd punch
to the head or chest after physical play in corners or in the crease. I
would not return any blows, just watch them get hauled off to the box and
perhaps would join them if we both ended up with minors. I didn't have to
punch back to be accepted or hold my own eventually I earned that through my
abilities.
If you were walking down the street and someone took a big stick and
two-handed you across the back of the legs what would you do? Why would the
response change on an ice rink? It is our responsibility as parents and
coaches to teach sportsmanship. The only fight I have ever witnessed in
women's hockey was just recently when my team was playing a local young
girls all-star team. The coaches daughter punched one of our players in the
head after a collision a center ice. I was in goal so I witnessed the whole
thing and couldn't believe my eyes! The collision was pretty minor but
apparently during the course of the game, the younger girls were quite
mouthy and full fo elbows in the corners. This is due to the coaching.
This girl was kicked out of the game, which is what she deserved, but was
laughing about it later in the lobby.
Controlling your emotions and having appropriate responses is something we
strive to teach our children so why through it all away in the name of
sport?
Tanya, #1
Vancouver Valkryies
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 19:40:09 -0800
From: "Tanya & Patrick Martin"
Subject: clearing the slot
I meant to send this much earlier but forgot. I wanted to tell Anne (I
believe) that she could play on my team anytime. Clearing the slot in my
mine does not mean physically removing the player, which we all know is
legally impossible. I believe it means positioning yourself between your
net and the opposition player and keeping their stick off the ice. Anything
else is a waste of your energy. By keeping their stick off the ice you make
it amost impossible to tip a shot and that combined with having your body
between them and the net allows you to get that juicy rebound your goalie
might give up.
Tanya, #1
Vancouver Valkryies
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 23:15:52 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: clearing the slot
In a message dated 1/17/00 9:50:12 PM Central Standard Time,
email@hidden writes:
<< Clearing the slot in my mine does not mean physically removing the player,
which we all know is legally impossible. I believe it means positioning
yourself between your net and the opposition player and keeping their stick
off the ice. Anything else is a waste of your energy.
***** Can't agree with ya here. No player from the other team has any
business hanging out in my slot. You have to do whatever it takes (within
the rules) to get them out of there.
It is PHYSICALLY impossible to keep the opponent;s stick off the ice without
using your body against theirs for leverage. (Unless you have arms as thick
as Jagr's legs!) You have to get them off balance, (this does not mean
knocking them over) or they will be able to put their stick right back down.
While you have them off balance, they are in your control - skate them away
from the slot. There is nothing illegal about this at all. Granted, I do
not win any popularity contests with the oppenents. In fact, I know I am
doing something right when the opposing team starts swearing at me, takes a
cheap shot at me with their stick, and gets called for a penalty. }:-)
A good forward will usually not stand there and take your abuse - they will
skate away (or try to skate away) to get open. A bad (or lesser experience
forward) will usually try to stand there and out muscle you. Generally, the
defensemen wins this battle. (However, "tying up the defensemen" is
sometimes a good tactic, becuase it could create a screen for the goalie, or
get that oddball deflection.)
Jill
# 77 LI Hurricanes
# 77 Chicago Ice
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 00:21:31 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Concussions (was -- girl's and violence in hockey)
In a message dated 1/17/00 5:31:56 AM Eastern Standard Time,
email@hidden writes:
<< If we and our kids are going to play sports like hockey and soccer, then
the folks on
the bench should at least know when to sit a kid who has taken a blow to
the head. There
is nothing heroic about going back out onto the ice when your head is still
swimming and
risking a second blow to the head and permanent damage. >>
I'm a Boys Youth Coach and I see this all the time. More often than not the
player will downplay how they feel, but after several years of doing this, I
can pretty much look in their eyes and make my decision to sit them or play
them, most of the time I sit them. I've had many kids hit their heads and be
completely knocked out for anywhere from just a few seconds to a couple of
minutes. In those cases I have the parents take them for medical evaluation
and then I check up on them myself (through phone calls) every few hours for
the next couple of days. I do this to make sure the parents are being
vigiliant about watching the player for any signs of a worsening condition.
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 01:16:02 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Sr. Women's tournament in Ohio
The Cincinnati Rising Stars women's ice hockey team is pleased to announce
their 2nd annual tournament. Tournament date is May 5th, 6th and 7th. Last
year we hosted teams from Chicago, Atlanta, North Carolina, Michigan and Ohio.
For more information, see our tournament page at our website at:
www.takenotice.com\hockey
Thanks - Jackie #22
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:26:30 -0500
From: "Roehr, Susan N"
Subject: RE: excuse me! polite?
> There's a big difference between college hockey fights and
> NHL fights, too.
> I am mildly entertained when college boys go at it. It's
> silly but fun,
> and I just think, why did the player on my home team take the risk of
> incurring penalty, which may result in losing the game?
This is kind of interesting--I decided this morning that it's the college
fights that bug me, and the NHL/pro fights that entertain me. I hate going
to our (men's) college games, and have in fact stopped attending. It was
just penalty-penalty-penalty-fight-penalty-fight-fight, all instigated by
our team. It was deadly boring--the whistle blew every 30 seconds. I'd
rather go watch midget hockey--at least it's pretty uninterrupted play.
On the other hand, we went to a minor league game last Friday, and afterward
I confessed to my partner that I was kind of hoping one of those pushing
matches would evolve into a real fight. My partner shamefacedly admitted
the same thing. And I have to admit I laugh every time I see that Bobby
Hull commercial where his neighbor comes down the hall, throws down his
hockey gloves and jumps him.
I frighten myself!
S.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 08:50:10 -0500
From: "Roehr, Susan N"
Subject: RE: Viloence in hockey
This has been a very interesting discussion.
> mouthy and full fo elbows in the corners. This is due to the
> coaching.
> This girl was kicked out of the game, which is what she
> deserved, but was
> laughing about it later in the lobby.
I was thinking this morning about the culpability of the coach/club as well.
It has been proposed that the way to stop fighting is to impose a stiffer
penalty (more than a 2-minute minor, for instance). I was thinking--if
coaches *really* thought there was too much fighting, they shouldn't stand
around and wait for the rules to change. They should enforce team rules on
fighting. This is what happens with the university basketball team. NCAA
rules mandate that a player is eligible if he has a certain GPA (I think
it's a C-average, but I'm not sure on the exact number). However, the coach
at IU emphasizes academics, and has his own rules. If you don't have a
higher GPA than the one required by the NCAA, you don't see game time. It's
perfectly possible for a hockey coach to establish a rule that says, "Hey,
you throw a punch in a game, your teammates are going to be suffering next
game because guess what? You're on the bench." Maybe coaches just need to
start drawing the line.
I personally think the fights that occur in our rink are partly due to the
coaching/management. One of my coworkers pulled her 5-year-old son from the
hockey program here and put him into figure skating because he was getting
thumped on all the time. Frankly, little kids should *not* be pushing each
other around on the ice. They should not be checking, and they should not
be bullying anyone, especially not their teammates. My coworker is
completely anti-hockey now, and I spent 15 minutes defending the sport to my
other coworkers last Friday.
I don't know...I was sitting in the Conseco Fieldhouse the other night,
listening to the guys behind me shout, "Hey, hands off, ref! Let them
fight!" and all I could think was, well, at least this isn't the Roman
colosseum. Not only would the players be fighting, there would be lions out
there on the ice having their fill, too.
S.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 06:18:00 -0800
From: email@hidden (Megan Bryant)
Subject: Re: excuse me! polite?
>>And I have to admit I laugh every time I see that Bobby
>>Hull commercial where his neighbor comes down the hall, throws down his
>>hockey gloves and jumps him.
I thought it was Mark Messier
- --
M. Bryant
310 448 7551
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 09:19:43 -0500
From: "Roehr, Susan N"
Subject: RE: excuse me! polite?
You're right. I just responded to someone else--I meant to type Brett Hull,
typed Bobby instead, and I wasn't even in the right family. I can't even
tell you what kind of chips the commercial is selling, but I thought the
figure skating on the TV was also funny.
S.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: email@hidden [mailto:email@hidden]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2000 9:18 AM
> To: Roehr, Susan N; email@hidden
> Subject: Re: excuse me! polite?
>
>
> >>And I have to admit I laugh every time I see that Bobby
> >>Hull commercial where his neighbor comes down the hall,
> throws down his
> >>hockey gloves and jumps him.
>
> I thought it was Mark Messier
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> M. Bryant
> 310 448 7551
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:22:28 -0600
From: "Olson, Lynn"
Subject: NCAA
I received this information from USA Hockey today and thought I would share
it with this group.
NCAA Establishes Women's Ice Hockey Championship in 2001
The NCAA membership has adopted legislation to establish a National
Collegiate Women's Ice Hockey Championship effective during the 2000-01
academic year.
During the January 9-10 NCAA Convention in San Diego, the Divisions II
and III membership adopted legislation that previously was approved
through the Division I legislative system. The specific format and field
size of the championship has not yet been determined as the NCAA will
now establish a NCAA Women's Ice Hockey Championships/Competition
Cabinet.
Currently, 53 institutions (25 Division I, two Division II and 26
Division III) sponsor women's ice hockey as a varsity sport. Of those
institutions, 34 are ECAC members - 13 participate in the Division I
women's league, 17 in the women's alliance and four schools compete as
independents.
The NCAA Division III Presidents Council also has announced that it
intends to introduce legislation for vote during the 2001 NCAA
Convention that would establish a Division III national championship
effective with the 2001-02 academic year.
The American Women's College Hockey Alliance, sponsored by USA Hockey,
currently conducts championships at the Divisions I and III levels. The
2000 championships will be held March 24-25, at Northeastern
University's Matthews Arena.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:09:43 -0800
From: email@hidden
Subject: To: email@hidden
- ----- from Jill ------
A good forward will usually not stand there and take your abuse - they will
skate away (or try to skate away) to get open. A bad (or lesser
experience
forward) will usually try to stand there and out muscle you. Generally,
the
defensemen wins this battle. (However, "tying up the defensemen" is
sometimes a good tactic, becuase it could create a screen for the goalie,
or
get that oddball deflection.)
- ---------------
I must agree with Jill, I don't want players from the other team in
the slot in my defensive end.
A futher point with reference to the above paragraph is that one of
purposes of clearing the player away is to avoid the screen that Jill
mentions.
Wendy
The FLASH #21
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 23:19:24 EST
From: email@hidden
Subject: Chicago Ice "Black and Blue" Tournament
The 3rd Annual Black and Blue Tournament, sponsored by the Chicago Ice, will
be held April 28-30, 2000.
This year the tournament site is the Bensenville Edge. The Edge is the
training center for the Chicago Blackhawks NHL Team. The Edge offers a
double surface ice rink so that all games in all divisions may be played
at the same location.
* Two divisions: Women's B and Women's C.
*Medals for first and second place teams in each division.
*Games begin at 7:00pm on Friday the 28th.
*Skills competition on Saturday the 29th.
*Championship games completed by 2:00pm on Sunday the 30th.
For more information or to register, please email email@hidden or call
Mary Gutowski at 773-583-5120.
Jill
# 77 Chicago Ice
"Only you can prevent hockey stick fires.:
------------------------------
End of Women-in-Hockey Digest V1 #583
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