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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 12:29:52 -0800
To: email@hidden
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: Real Time chats @ HockeyFanz (asking your opinion)
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Hey, folks, List Mom here. I'd like your advice on something.
One of the things I wanted when I built hockeyfanz.com was real time
capabilities. It didn't make opening night, but I've been working on
it as I've had time since.
The more I work on it, though, the less sure I am on what I'm doing
is the best way to do this. When you're not sure what you're doing is
right -- it's best to ask the experts. That's you.
What I've been planning to do is set up an IRC server on
hockeyfanz.com that we can all use for real-time get togethers. There
are a number of advantages to this, starting with being able to
control who has access and avoiding the trolls, and being able to set
up whatever structure we want within the IRC.
But there are some weaknesses, too. The key one to me is that the
connection to the local IRC server is only as good as the network
between my site and yours. For a number of users, especially our
users not in North America, this could lead to real performance
issues. I also know from talking to some of you that there are
already a number of people who have regular, or semi-regular,
get-togethers on various networks already, and I'm wondering if it
makes more sense to work with these existing setups instead of
building a new one and trying to get everyone to use it. The
downside, of course, would be that we lose some control of our
destiny, so to speak, since we'd be using other services.
I'm not sure which is best for all of us, although to be honest, I'm
now leaning towards using the existing IRC and IM systems instead of
building standalone versions. But I dunno.
So I want to know what YOU think the best way to handle real-time
systems with HockeyFanz. Let me know what you think -- do you prefer:
1) building a stand-alone IRC server on Hockeyfanz, for Hockeyfanz
users. The advantage: it'll be small, low-volume, and less likely to
have trolls wandering through, since it'll only be known to
HockeyFanz users. This, hwoever, requires laurie and I to build all
of the stuff, manage it, and it's dependent on how much capacity we
have and how well connected you are to our site for performance
purposes.
2) build a place on HockeyFanz where we can keep a calendar of
real-time events, and how to access them. A number of the lists
already have groups that get together, and we can advertise those
meetings and help interested groups organize new ones, plus if there
are special one-time events, get them advertised as well. The
advantage: it's a LOT easier to build for us, a lot less maintenance,
and existing groups don't have to move or change things. The downside
seems to be that we don't control the systems, so we won't be able to
do it the way we want, plus being part of the larger IRC universe
makes us open to some of the abuses that happen there.
3) You don't care about real time stuff and don't plan on using it anyway.
4) have another idea? I'd love to hear it.
I admit to being a "build it yourself" person, but the more I get
involved in this stuff, the more I begin to think that (2) is the
better option. I really don't know, though. I've been experimenting
mostly with Undernet, and have started exploring AIM for instance
messaging (that's a whole different discussion -- AIM or ICQ?). If we
decided to go with (2), I'll probably host the meetings I do on
undernet, but any real time group on any service will be welcome to
advertise their existance (as to IM, I have no clue what I'd
recommend at the HockeyFanz standard yet...) -- I originally looked
at running my own fantasy league stuff, too, but decided it was more
work to do than we had time to get it ready in -- and in fact, I'm
pretty happy with smallworld.com for fantasy league stuff, so I
expect we'll continue to recommend people set up their leagues there
or on Yahoo.
Anyway, if you have an opinion on this, let me know. Please don't
post it to the list, either email me directly, or post your feedback
in the forums. I've started a topic for this in the forums at
for that
purpose. let's keep the lists focussed on topic, and try to keep the
discussion in one place.
thanks for your help...
chuq
--
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
We're visiting the relatives. Cover us.
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From: "Gen"
To:
Subject: Happy Holidays !
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:00:44 -0500
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Hi,
I just want to wish all of you a very happy Christmas and wonderful New
Year. Don't forget to thank for our blessings. Being able to get involved in
hockey is a very good thing. I am still saving up to play. Let's all relax
with our families for this season of miracles and make each moment count.
Gen
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:22:26 -0500
To: email@hidden
From: Debbie Minden
Subject: highschool hockey
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We have just entered the world of highschool hockey, and I am a bit
confused (ticked off, annoyed?). My daughter is the only girl. She
is on the freshman team, and the assistant captain. The varsity
coach asked if he could roster her, along with one of the other 4
freshman. He didn't roster the captain of the freshman team. After
all this, she has played 6 shifts in 6 games - 4 in one, 1 in each of
2, and sat for the rest - not in that order. The guy has 3
defensemen who are usually dead by the end of the 2nd period. All
the boys on the team are great, friendly, encouraging, etc. with the
exception of the captain.
Why bother roster a kid who sits 99% of the time? She could be home
doing homework. She likes the coach, doesn't mind sitting (much),
and says the coach does a great practice which makes up for the lack
of competition in her girls team. She figures next year after the 6
seniors graduate, her day will come.
This is such a different experience from club hockey. Any thoughts?
Debbie
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:39:27 -0500
To: email@hidden
From: Louise
Subject: Re: highschool hockey
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At 04:22 PM 19/12/2000 -0500, Debbie Minden wrote:
>We have just entered the world of highschool hockey, and I am a bit
>confused (ticked off, annoyed?). My daughter is the only girl. She
>is on the freshman team, and the assistant captain. The varsity
>coach asked if he could roster her, along with one of the other 4
>freshman. He didn't roster the captain of the freshman team. After
>all this, she has played 6 shifts in 6 games - 4 in one, 1 in each of
>2, and sat for the rest - not in that order. The guy has 3
>defensemen who are usually dead by the end of the 2nd period. All
>the boys on the team are great, friendly, encouraging, etc. with the
>exception of the captain.
>
>Why bother roster a kid who sits 99% of the time? She could be home
>doing homework. She likes the coach, doesn't mind sitting (much),
>and says the coach does a great practice which makes up for the lack
>of competition in her girls team. She figures next year after the 6
>seniors graduate, her day will come.
>
>This is such a different experience from club hockey. Any thoughts?
Is the coach a teacher at her school, or a member of the community? Has he
coached this team in previous years? Does he already have positive
experience with girls playing contact hockey on boys' teams? (Is it
possible that he is being overly cautious or protective of your daughter?)
It's too late to say this now, but it's a lot easier for a player (or
parent) to inquire tactfully about expectations and commitments before
joining a team, than halfway through the season. ("Do you give equal ice
time? If not, what is your idea of fair ice time? What can I expect from
you? What do you expect of me?" ... )
Playing three defence when you've got others on the bench sounds like a
short-sighted strategy to me. Is your daughter the only one who's not
getting played? It's also not clear to me whether she's missing out on
some other games she could be playing in by sitting on the bench for this
team.
Louise
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From: "Ron Goldey"
To:
References:
Subject: Re: highschool hockey
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Debbie,
I'm a bit confused by your email. Now that she's being rostered on the
varsity team, is she still able to play on the freshman team? If so, is she
getting full shifts in the freshman games? Or am I misunderstanding you, and
is she only getting a few shifts in the freshman games and none in the
varsity games?
If she's getting full shifts in the freshman games and a few shifts in the
varsity games, I'd say she's doing better than the average bear. She'll see
a faster, tougher level of play any time she gets a chance to play varsity,
and it will prepare her for next year, when those 6 seniors are gone.
Unless, of course, school work is suffering.You mentioned homework. If she's
not keeping up with school, it's a no-brainer.
Please tell her good luck, and keep her head up.
Ron Goldey
Healthcare I.T., Inc.
(800)616-2104 (v)
(513)523-5600 (f)
email@hidden
www.healthcareit.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Debbie Minden"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:22 PM
Subject: highschool hockey
We have just entered the world of highschool hockey, and I am a bit
confused (ticked off, annoyed?). My daughter is the only girl. She
is on the freshman team, and the assistant captain. The varsity
coach asked if he could roster her, along with one of the other 4
freshman. He didn't roster the captain of the freshman team. After
all this, she has played 6 shifts in 6 games - 4 in one, 1 in each of
2, and sat for the rest - not in that order. The guy has 3
defensemen who are usually dead by the end of the 2nd period. All
the boys on the team are great, friendly, encouraging, etc. with the
exception of the captain.
Why bother roster a kid who sits 99% of the time? She could be home
doing homework. She likes the coach, doesn't mind sitting (much),
and says the coach does a great practice which makes up for the lack
of competition in her girls team. She figures next year after the 6
seniors graduate, her day will come.
This is such a different experience from club hockey. Any thoughts?
Debbie
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Subject: Re: highschool hockey
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 00 16:53:29 -0500
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From: ellice
To: "Debbie Minden" ,
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Debbie & crew,
Welcome to the brave new world. In a word, YES - in my experience as a
ref, and high school (boys) coach - it is different.
Many clubs may still be doing the close to equal ice time, working on
player development, everyone is paying to play, etc. But, when you play
for your school, it is a greater emphasis on the "school" name, honor,
etc coming first - translate that into "winning" . Which means that the
strongest play the most, the weaker players play less.
Most school leagues have a rule about how many players can be rostered
both ways. Here, it's something like only the 4 lowest varsity players
can be rostered to play with the JV. So, it's an honor or shows the coach
thinks well of your daughter by having her as the alternate captain, and
rostering her with the varsity. And she is getting more out of those
practices than you might believe - it will have her learning the more
complicated play that the varsity usually follows, and help her skills.
But, that doesn't mean she's completely ready for high school varsity -
on the ice with some 17 yr old, >6' , hormone pumped guys.
I coached the JV at a local private/prep (boys school) and assisted with
the Varsity. I had players that were thrilled to be allowed to actually
dress with the Varsity. And getting one or two shifts was great. They
wanted to be part of the team - of course, there are those who thought
they were "better" - self perception is tough. But, the head coach, who
is a great guy, and does the USAH select-16 now (had the champion select
14s for a while) - would put one of those hard working, maybe not as
skilled, but willing to give it all - JV players out, and use them to
teach a lesson to some lagging Varsity players.
Also, the high school games can be pretty rock & roll. Despite unwritten
rules about not checking the girls, and retaliation, etc - perhaps the
coach wants your daughter to see & learn what's going on at that level,
and be really prepared for playing with the even bigger boys. Rather than
rushing her into a situation where she might get hurt, or abused.A
freshmen skating with the varsity is a big step, and I'd imagine she,
more than her parent, may be understanding the situation of being a 4th
liner. Heck, the pros have guys that barely get ice time - but they're
happy when they get it. Look at the positive - her times will come. It's
always interesting when we're reffin' and watching the couple of girls on
some high school teams - sometimes they're great, and sometimes, not.
But, they do have to use a higher skill level.
On a different but related note - my beloved partner in crime on & off
ice reffed a girls U-19 AA (all girls are Tier I) game - they played a
boys Midget A (Tier II) team, and it was a great game - great skating,
skills, wide open, 1 goal game. The girls lost, but they were definitely
in the game the entire time, and it could've gone either way. Of course,
it was non-check (USAH dictates you play non-check when either team is
from a non-check league).
good luck, don't get too frustrated, sorry about the $.25 worth.
ellice
-------------Original message-------------------------
Received: 12/19/00 4:32 PM
From: Debbie Minden, email@hidden
>We have just entered the world of highschool hockey, and I am a bit
>confused (ticked off, annoyed?). My daughter is the only girl. She
>is on the freshman team, and the assistant captain. The varsity
>coach asked if he could roster her, along with one of the other 4
>freshman. He didn't roster the captain of the freshman team. After
>all this, she has played 6 shifts in 6 games - 4 in one, 1 in each of
>2, and sat for the rest - not in that order. The guy has 3
>defensemen who are usually dead by the end of the 2nd period. All
>the boys on the team are great, friendly, encouraging, etc. with the
>exception of the captain.
>
>Why bother roster a kid who sits 99% of the time? She could be home
>doing homework. She likes the coach, doesn't mind sitting (much),
>and says the coach does a great practice which makes up for the lack
>of competition in her girls team. She figures next year after the 6
>seniors graduate, her day will come.
>
>This is such a different experience from club hockey. Any thoughts?
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:05:28 EST
Subject: roller/ice hockey transition
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Hey.. I have a question for any of the women who have moved from roller
hockey to ice hockey..
I'm 16 and I play roller hockey right now and in january i'll be joining a
womens ice hockey club.. I have very good balance and coordination on inline
skates, but I've never ICE skated a day in my life. I'd like to know, is the
transition from roller to ice an easy one? if anyone has any pointers or
advice (on equipment, skating or anything to a new ice hockey player) it
would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks gals,
Jess
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From: email@hidden
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 17:48:51 EST
Subject: Re: roller/ice hockey transition
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I played roller hockey for about 3 years. When I went to play ice hockey for
the first time, it was only my second time on the ice. I don't think it was a
hard transition to make. It doesn't take as much effort to skate, and the
puck moves a whole lot easier (well, unless the zamboni guy leaves to much
water on the rink). The main problem for me was stopping, and after two
years, I'm just now starting to get it down.
I would say the transition from ice to roller is a lot harder. I did
intermural roller hockey this fall, and about killed myself trying to stop
and do direction changes and all that. Which brings me to one last thing
about ice hockey...it doesn't hurt as much when you fall.
Jennie
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From: email@hidden
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:26:01 EST
Subject: Re: highschool hockey
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My boyfriend is a coach of a high school team in a high division in our
state. He often suits kids up and they only get to play one or two shifts a
game. The reason a coach brings players up, especially freshman, is to let
them experience and see the varsity in action. It is important for them to
hear what is going on on the bench and learn the systems that they will be
playing in the future. It may seem like a waste of time to you, but it is
important if she is going to play varsity in the future. Tell while she is on
the bench to be an active participant by listening to what the coach is
telling the other players, and to learn the mental part of the game. This way
when she gets out on the ice she can put into action what the coach wants.
Deb
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From: "Cathi Thomas"
To:
Subject: Summer hockey camps
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:46:11 -0800
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Could you recommend a good summer camp for a friend with a 13 year old
daughter? We live in New England, but not afraid of traveling if need be.
Thanking you all in advance,
Cathi
www.chickwear.com
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Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:20:14 -0700
To: "Cathi Thomas" ,
From: Laurie Solgon
Subject: Re: Summer hockey camps
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The University of New Hampshire has a good one in late July / early
August. She can go for one or two weeks. My daughter has gone for the
last three years and I send her all the way from Arizona.
Laurie Solgon
At 10:46 PM 12/19/00 -0800, Cathi Thomas wrote:
>Could you recommend a good summer camp for a friend with a 13 year old
>daughter? We live in New England, but not afraid of traveling if need be.
>Thanking you all in advance,
>Cathi
>www.chickwear.com
>_______________________________________________
>women-in-hockey mailing list
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>http://www.hockeyfanz.com/mailman/listinfo/women-in-hockey
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Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:00:46 -0800
To: email@hidden
From: Chuq Von Rospach
Subject: admin: changes to HockeyFanz.com rules/terms of service.
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Folks:
We want to notify you that we've made a couple of changes to the
terms of service and rules that we manage our site and lists by. The
full set of rules are available at
. We ask all users
to abide by these rules when they choose to use our systems.
We have made two changes to the terms of service. The text of these
changes are:
o We ask all of our users to cooperate in staying on topic on the
mailing lists. Before we had the discussion forums, we tended to let
the lists wander off topic, even though it upset a number of our
users, because we really didn't have any alternative. Now, with the
forums, we do -- we ask that users who want to start an off-topic
discussion on a list do so by creating the discussion in the forums
and posting the URL to access the discussion into the list. That will
allow those that are interested in the discussion to join in, while
keeping the list itself on topic and focussed for those users who
find the chatter distracting.
o We are now requiring that all posting involving any kind of
financial transaction be done ONLY on the discussion forums. This
includes all ticket requests or offers, cards, pucks, sticks,
jerseys, memorabilia or any other item for sale or trade, or anything
else that might be considered a classified ad. This is not optional
-- users who post these items to the lists may have their posting
privilege reduced or revoked.
-----
Here is why we're making these changes:
The first change is to put in writing our request for your help in
keeping the mailing lists focussed. Before we added the discussion
forums, we really didn't have an alternative for the kind of
discussion that a group of people generates around the topic that
brought them together. Managing a mailing list is a constant struggle
to find a compromise between the list users who enjoy wide-ranging
discussions and those that are interested in a less-busy, more
focussed list. Now that we've had a chance to test out the forums and
make sure they're operating properly, we have a place for those
side-discussions, and I'm asking people to please help us focus the
lists on the primary topic, and to use the forums for the more
wide-ranging talk that goes on. We realize that these side
discussions is one of the things that brings a flavor or personality
to the lists and we don't want to screw that up, so we want to be as
flexible as possible in managing this and leave it up to the users as
much as possible -- so instead of setting up hard walls over "this is
good" and "this is bad", we're asking users to self-police
themselves. We'll monitor this over the next few months and see how
it work -- one thing we do NOT want is lists turning into "get this
off the list" fights. Remember that the "don't play list mom" rule is
still very much in effect, and if you feel something isn't
appropriate for a list, ask the admins to deal with it. Don't try to
'fix' the problem yourself, or you run the risk of getting into worse
trouble...
The second change is somewhat related to the first -- we're taking
one aspect of the content that has traditionally been controversial
and moving it to the discussion forums. Unlike the off-topic talk,
however, this is a MANDATORY restriction. This restriction brings all
of the lists in line with the policy we've used since we closed the
sharks-tickets list, so now everyone is on the same set of rules
again. The reason we're making this mandatory is not just to get this
content off of the mailing lists, but to help us better manage the
content and limit our legal liability as the place where these
transactions are taking place. Over the last couple of years, we've
had a growing number of problems related to the sale or trade of
tickets over our lists, and a couple of those issues got very
serious. I wish it didn't have to be said, but while Laurie and I
enjoy doing this for all of you, that enjoyment ends when lawyers
enter the scene, and we have no interest in being involved in legal
problems involving this site.
There haven't been many problems in the past, but there have been
enough that I felt we had to make some changes to better allow us to
track and administer this stuff, and to make our rules both explicit
and impossible to conveniently miss (we get really tired of people
who tell us they didn't read the rules, so they didn't know something
was against the rules, or that they didn't CARE if it was against the
rules -- so we're setting this up so that you basically CAN'T miss
the rules, because the few turkeys and greedy twits have forced us to)
I know from shutting down the sharks-tickets list that these changes
are not likely to be wildly popular. Given that the existing setup
put us in a legal situation I was no longer willing to accept, it
came down to banning this material completely (which I didn't want to
do), or finding a compromise setup that allowed us to continue to do
this for the users who want it, while limiting our liability against
future problems.
Users who violate this policy will find their site posting
priviledges reduced or revoked. I try to not draw many hard lines in
the sand, but this one, unfortunately, is one of them. I'm sorry to
have to do this, but the day we get sued is the day HockeyFanz gets
shut down forever, and frankly, I'd rather not do that (and one hopes
you don't want me to, either). Unfortunately, I no longer feel I can
support the status quo, either.
If you want to discuss these changes, I'm open to your feedback and
suggestions.
Feel free to drop me a note by e-mail, or start a topic in the
forums. I ask that we try to keep arguing about this off the lists,
to try to keep them focussed on why they exist and not bog them down
in meta-discussions about the lists themselves.
Thanks for your cooperation and understanding.
chuq
HockeyFanz.com
--
Chuq Von Rospach - Plaidworks Consulting (mailto:email@hidden)
Apple Mail List Gnome (mailto:email@hidden)
We're visiting the relatives. Cover us.