Parent
WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 600
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
by email@hidden
2) re: age vs size debate
by Donna Maier
3) Re: Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
by email@hidden
4) Goalie Question
by email@hidden
5) Re: Goalie Question
by Jessica Yeo
6) RE: RE: Comment on girl h.s. hockey in MN
by "Wayne Burgess"
7) Re: Goalie Question
by email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
8) Re[2]: Goalie Question
by "Marcia E Blake"
9) Re: Goalie Question
by Judi Stevens
10) RE: RE: Comment on girl h.s. hockey in MN
by email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
11) Re: Goalie Question
by Shannon Perkins
12) Re: Goalie Question
by Jan de Regt
13) Re[2]: Goalie Question
by Jan de Regt
14) RE: WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY digest 597
by Mike Mountain
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:43:58 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
Message-ID:
Erin was wrong. The Shooting Stars was a Squirt team playing in NIHL. No
Peewee or Bantam teams.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:44:38 -0500 (CDT)
From: Donna Maier
To: email@hidden
Subject: re: age vs size debate
Message-ID:
On Wed, 11 Jun 1997 email@hidden wrote:
> I'm interested in knowing if anyone else has run into a situation where
> neither age nor size is considered. My daughter has played in a few (girls)
> tournaments in what they call the "development" division which is for novice
> players ages 8 through 19. Given the skating ability of many of these
> players, there is a great deal of "incidental contact", as well as some not
> so incidental when they can get away with it. Given the size difference
> between the older and younger girls there is a big potential for injury, even
> in a so-called non-check game. Is this a common set-up, or unique to New
> England?
>
I don't want to ruffle any feathers here, but I'll have to say that it's
difficult to play the kind of hockey that my team (the University of
Illinois) likes to play when the other team is 10 years younger and 50 lbs.
lighter than us. Our team has had experience playing a couple of teams
with MUCH younger players, and not only were they much more skilled than
us, (not to mention faster), but nearly every time one of the other
players fell, we got a penalty for it. I'll admit that we don't play
pansy hockey, but I believe the term is FULL contact. I am thrilled that
younger girls are interested (and even better, empowered) in playing
hockey- I wish I could have started younger. But I think that some sort
of age restriction is necessary- or people are going to get hurt.
Whether it's broken bones or bruised egos, I don't think it's worth the
damage. Instead, why don't we just get more girls to play, so leagues
can be formed? Easier said than done, I realize!
Donna Maier #17
President
Illini Women's Hockey
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 19:48:44 -0500
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
Message-ID:
The Sparks are actually two girls teams that are part of the Glen Elyn
Flames. The older team, ages 16 and under played Peewee house and the
younger team, ages 12 and under played Squirt house.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 23:13:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: email@hidden
To: email@hidden
Subject: Goalie Question
Message-ID:
I have a 7 year old daughter who has now completed her "Mandatory" 2 years of
playing out (at Mom's insistence) to prove herself commited enough to play
Goal. Now that the time has come I have a question before I start purchasing
her equipment. She is a left-handed shooter, so what hand will she hold the
goal stick and what hand will she catch with?
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 05:38:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jessica Yeo
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Goalie Question
Message-ID:
I do not play goal, so this is what I would do. Have her catch with
her best catching hand. The stick is there to poke check amd help
block the puck, but the glove is there to catch the puck and to hold
it.
email@hidden wrote:
>
> I have a 7 year old daughter who has now completed her "Mandatory" 2
years of
> playing out (at Mom's insistence) to prove herself commited enough
to play
> Goal. Now that the time has come I have a question before I start
purchasing
> her equipment. She is a left-handed shooter, so what hand will she
hold the
> goal stick and what hand will she catch with?
>
> Jackie
>
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 97 22:05:20 UT
From: "Wayne Burgess"
To: email@hidden
Subject: RE: RE: Comment on girl h.s. hockey in MN
Message-ID:
I must agree that game was exciting although I can't say it was the most
exciting I have seen. Any game that has the championship of the world on the
line would be exciting no matter what the rules. I would argue that over an 80
game season the fans interest would wane without the physical contact. Just
look at the fans after a good clean hit. They appreciate it.
Another thing,have we thought about the poor goalies being bombarded with
70-80 shots per game, and probably a high percentage of those good scoring
chances with 5 shot flurries. No I wouldn't want the job.
Maybe you should suggest that contact be removed from the game of football.
That would definitely open the game up and make it more exciting.Would it not?
Although the quarterback would be sacked on almost every play.
I once again must stress that the sport of hockey is a combative sport and if
you want to create leagues without contact then fine. You can even try to
compete with them, but please don't try to generalize the sport into a unisex
version. It is not meant to be played that way. Yes Womens hockey has come
leaps and bounds and when I am out on the rink on a Saturday morning and
thereare 18 and 19 year old girls skating circles around me I see the proof.
Just my thoughts.
Cheers, Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: email@hidden On Behalf Of email@hidden
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 12:42 AM
To: Subscribers to
Subject: RE:RE: Comment on girl h.s. hockey in MN
Wayne, Toronto
In your letter from June 6,1997, you mentioned about watching a tape of the
last NHL All-Star game and noticing how boring the game was.
Unfortunately the game I would ask you to watch is probably not available on
tape, unless you know someone that taped it. The game I'm referring to is the
Women's World Championship Game from this April. There is no way that you
could call that BORING!. Even though the U.S. lost, it was one of the best
HOCKEY games I've seen!
I hope that the U.S. T.V. network gods will let us watch the Olympic Match
Up(Go U.S.!). Then maybe more people will understand that a Hockey game can be
exciting even without the hitting(as in the NHL).
Sandy, Joliet, Illinois, U.S.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 08:52:47 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Goalie Question
Message-ID:
> Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 20:14:53 -0700
> Reply-to: email@hidden
> From: email@hidden
> To: Subscribers to
> Subject: Goalie Question
> I have a 7 year old daughter who has now completed her "Mandatory" 2 years of
> playing out (at Mom's insistence) to prove herself commited enough to play
> Goal. Now that the time has come I have a question before I start purchasing
> her equipment. She is a left-handed shooter, so what hand will she hold the
> goal stick and what hand will she catch with?
>
> Jackie
>
Jackie,
I am by no means an expert here, but normally she would hold the
stick with her right hand and catch with the left. Does she play any
softball? She should catch with the same hand she would use in
softball. Bottom line should always be, which way does she feel most
comfortable?
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY
email@hidden
www.canadianhockey.ca
www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 11:05:57 -0600
From: "Marcia E Blake"
To:
Subject: Re[2]: Goalie Question
Message-ID:
What arm does she catches a softball/baseball with may be the more
important question, rather than where the stick feels more natural.
She will develop the necessary stick skills as she learns.
MB-"2-goalie mom"
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Goalie Question
Author: at smtpgate
Date: 6/12/97 5:43 AM
email@hidden wrote: I have a 7 year old daughter .... commited enough
to play Goal. ... She is a left-handed shooter, so what hand will she hold the
goal stick and what hand will she catch with?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:04:54 -0700
From: Judi Stevens
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Goalie Question
Message-ID:
Jackie,
My daughter plays goalie, she is a left-handed shooter. She catches right
in goal, about 1/3 of the goalies I know do this. We were told when she
started, to go by the hand she naturally catches with (playing ball).
There is the exception for catching left. The other goalie on her team
last year, was a natural lefty, but his parents couldn't find a left glove
when he started. Now he will not change even though he is much quicker
left-handed. I hope this helps.
We did not get her goalie skates until half way through the season. This
gave her time to get use to the extra equipment before changing skates.
Also watch the 'weight' of the stick, getting the lightest will make it
easier for her to get use to.
Bree and Judi Stevens
PS: I still have some of Bree's equip., she started playing at that age (if
anyone is interested). By the way, what do you do with used equipment???
In San Diego, we really don't have a way of 'recycling', used equipment. Any
suggestions??
At 08:14 PM 6/11/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a 7 year old daughter who has now completed her "Mandatory" 2 years of
>playing out (at Mom's insistence) to prove herself commited enough to play
>Goal. Now that the time has come I have a question before I start purchasing
>her equipment. She is a left-handed shooter, so what hand will she hold the
>goal stick and what hand will she catch with?
>
>Jackie
>
>
Thank you,
Judi Stevens
MITS-CSD Help Desk
phone: 619/618-3921
fax: 619/618-1460
E-Mail: email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 09:35:31 +0000
From: email@hidden (DAVE BAKER)
To: email@hidden
Subject: RE: RE: Comment on girl h.s. hockey in MN
Message-ID:
> I once again must stress that the sport of hockey is a combative sport and if
> you want to create leagues without contact then fine. You can even try to
> compete with them, but please don't try to generalize the sport into a unisex
> version. It is not meant to be played that way. Yes Womens hockey has come
> leaps and bounds and when I am out on the rink on a Saturday morning and
> thereare 18 and 19 year old girls skating circles around me I see the proof.
Wayne,
I still think you are missing the point. There is lot's of contact
in the women's game. However, what there is not is intentional body
checking. There are still many ways to check an opponent, without a
body check. This forces a higher skill level with respect to
removing the puck from the puck carrier. In fact, now you must be
able to skate with your opponent, not just have muscle and size to
overpower the opponent in an attempt to seperate the puck from the
puck carrier. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I hate body
checking in the game...I'm just as big a fan as anyone else for a
solid bodycheck, but I also enjoy the skill demonstrated by the elite
women's game.
My thoughts, not necessarily my employer's.
David Baker
Manager, Officiating
CANADIAN HOCKEY
email@hidden
www.canadianhockey.ca
www.hhof.com/html/chocoe.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 13:08:37 -0400
From: Shannon Perkins
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: Goalie Question
Message-ID:
At 08:14 PM 6/11/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a 7 year old daughter who has now completed her "Mandatory" 2 years of
>playing out (at Mom's insistence) to prove herself commited enough to play
>Goal. Now that the time has come I have a question before I start purchasing
>her equipment. She is a left-handed shooter, so what hand will she hold the
>goal stick and what hand will she catch with?
>
>Jackie
>
If you shoot left handed, that usually means that you will want to have a
left-handed catching glove, and a right-handed blocker,i.e. you hold the
stick with your right hand and catch with your left. I shoot left-handed,
and that's the way I do it. This way makes it easier to shoot with, because
you can shoot as you normally would if you were playing forward(right hand
at the top of the stick and left hand towards the bottom).
If you play baseball/softball, you might want to buy a goalie catch glove
that is for the hand you catch best with. But, I strongly believe that the
stick is more important than the glove. So make sure that, if you pick the
hand you catch best with to hold the glove with, you can still shoot well. A
goalie who can't use their stick is useless, no matter how well they can
catch or cover the puck. You can always do what goalies like Curtis Joesph
do. Joseph is a left-handed goalie, but he shoots right-handed. He just
switched his hands around before he shoots, or uses his back-hand to shoot.
He's still very effective with his stick.
I recommend letting your daugter try on left-handed and right-handed sets
of goalie equipment. That way, she can choose the hand that is most
comfortable for her. My parents made the mistake of mail ordering a glove
and blocker for me, without finding out what hand I was first. They just
assumed that, because I was ambidextrious(I can use both hands equally,
write with either one, etc.)I could use any handed goalie set they bought
me. Wrong! So, make sure that your daughter finds out what hand she would
like to shoot/catch with before you sink your money into goalie equipment.
Good luck,
Shannon Perkins-#1 K-Wings
email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jun 1997 12:59:13 -0400
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re: Goalie Question
My son shoots right when playing out, but as a goalie holds the stick
in his right hand and catches with his left (well, he will once he
gets his cast off... but that's not a hockey related story!).
Jan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Goalie Question
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 6/11/97 11:29 PM
I have a 7 year old daughter who has now completed her "Mandatory" 2 years of
playing out (at Mom's insistence) to prove herself commited enough to play
Goal. Now that the time has come I have a question before I start purchasing
her equipment. She is a left-handed shooter, so what hand will she hold the
goal stick and what hand will she catch with?
Jackie
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jun 1997 13:25:59 -0400
From: Jan de Regt
To: email@hidden (Return requested),
Subject: Re[2]: Goalie Question
You might want to get her goalie skates right away, though. The
blades a longer, flater, and wider. They are ground to a much larger
radius and are designed to facilitate the movements that goalies must
do, which are different from the other players. My son started
playing goal when he was seven, but we didn't find goalie skates to
fit that first season. When we finally did, he found it MUCH easier
to do many of the goalie-specific movements.
Contrary to popular myths, goalies need their skates sharpened almost
as often as regular skates. More often, in fact, if your daughter
does a lot of skating drills at practice with the rest of her team.
When you get your daughter's goalie skates sharpened, ask what radius
was used [if you get a dumb look, start going somewhere else for
sharpenings] and make a note. Ask your daughter how she liked her
edges, and go for more or less edge (smaller or larger radius) as she
thinks. Once you get her preferred radius worked out, the 'hit or
miss' aspect of sharpening is removed. My son can tell if his edges
aren't right in about two strides!
Jan.
______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Goalie Question
Author: email@hidden at Internet
Date: 6/12/97 12:39 PM
Jackie,
My daughter plays goalie, she is a left-handed shooter. She catches right
in goal, about 1/3 of the goalies I know do this. We were told when she
started, to go by the hand she naturally catches with (playing ball).
There is the exception for catching left. The other goalie on her team
last year, was a natural lefty, but his parents couldn't find a left glove
when he started. Now he will not change even though he is much quicker
left-handed. I hope this helps.
We did not get her goalie skates until half way through the season. This
gave her time to get use to the extra equipment before changing skates.
Also watch the 'weight' of the stick, getting the lightest will make it
easier for her to get use to.
Bree and Judi Stevens
PS: I still have some of Bree's equip., she started playing at that age (if
anyone is interested). By the way, what do you do with used equipment???
In San Diego, we really don't have a way of 'recycling', used equipment. Any
suggestions??
At 08:14 PM 6/11/97 -0700, you wrote:
>I have a 7 year old daughter who has now completed her "Mandatory" 2 years of
>playing out (at Mom's insistence) to prove herself commited enough to play
>Goal. Now that the time has come I have a question before I start purchasing
>her equipment. She is a left-handed shooter, so what hand will she hold the
>goal stick and what hand will she catch with?
>
>Jackie
>
>
Thank you,
Judi Stevens
MITS-CSD Help Desk
phone: 619/618-3921
fax: 619/618-1460
E-Mail: email@hidden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 10:02:05 -0700
From: Mike Mountain
To: "'email@hidden'"
Subject: RE: WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY digest 597
Message-ID:
Re: Women's Inline Hockey League/Puyallup, WA
I am Assistant Director of the new Puyallup Family YMCA Skate Park. I
also coach a co-ed PeeWee Team on which both of my daughters play.
They're skilled players but it won't be long before they'll need a
women's team on which to play. Anyone interested in participating a
Women's Inline Hockey League at our facility please let me know.
Mike Mountain
206-770-8833 YMCA
>----------
>From: email@hidden[SMTP:email@hidden]
>Sent: Monday, June 09, 1997 5:02PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY digest 597
>
> WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 597
>
>Topics covered in this issue include:
>
> 1) Re: Discimation Suits against a Rink
> by email@hidden (Rachel Greenhow)
> 2) Re: Women's Shoulder Pads
> by email@hidden (Jules Smith)
> 3) Re: RE: Comment on girl h.s. hockey in MN
> by email@hidden
> 4) San Diego Tournament
> by Maura Grogan
> 5) papers on women's hockey
> by "HARRIS, zharris"
> 6) Re: Girls teams in Dallas/Fort Worth Area
> by email@hidden
> 7) Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
> by "James D. Lorino"
> 8) Re: papers on women's hockey
> by Jessica Yeo
> 9) Re: Women's Shoulder Pads
> by Kelly Connelly
> 10) Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
> by Tina JW Danzig
> 11) Re: Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
> by "Rich + Erin Malinowski"
> 12) Re: Girl's attitudes and age/size classification
> by email@hidden
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:58:19 -0500
>From: email@hidden (Rachel Greenhow)
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: Discimation Suits against a Rink
>Message-ID:
>
>6/9/97
>
>Hi all:
>
>Here's a dilemma that our team is facing right now, and I wondered if
>anyone had had any direct experience with this, or knew of the legal
>precedents in this situation. Thanks in advance for any help you can
>offer.
>
>The team I've been playing with has had a regular Saturday night slot for
>games with a park district rink here in Chicago. The problem is that last
>year they pushed the time back from 9:30 to 10:00 without notification.
>Then, when the team would show up at the later time, they would make them
>wait even longer to play. This year, the team is asking for a 9:00pm slot,
>and asking that the 9:00 start time be guaranteed, and the rink is balking.
>Last year, they were threatened with legal action and complied GRUDGINGLY.
>This year, it looks like if the grievance process to the park district
>board doesn't work, that we're going to actually pursue a discrimation
>suit.
>
>What do you all think about this?
>
>Feel free to e-mail responses privately to me at this address:
>email@hidden if you don't want to tell the whole list. Look
>forward to your responses.
>
>Rachel M. Greenhow
>(W) Chippewa Elementary School
>12425 S. Austin Ave.
>Palos Heights, IL 60143
>(708) 388-7260
>
>(H) 1117 N. Dearborn, #603
>Chicago, IL 60610
>(312) 649-1465
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 97 10:06:20 -0400
>From: email@hidden (Jules Smith)
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: Women's Shoulder Pads
>Message-ID: <9706091406.AA19489@pinion>
>
>Caroline-
>Have you checked out the Cooper shoulder pads for women?
>I bought them because they had the plastic shell(it's removeable) and
>excellent upper-arm coverage (they come down OVER my elbow pads). The only
>feature I have any problem with is the rise of the shoulders- it's a bit
>high for my liking, but other people I know like 'em high!
>
>Jules #8
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:51:52 -0400 (EDT)
>From: email@hidden
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: RE: Comment on girl h.s. hockey in MN
>Message-ID:
>
>
>In a message dated 6/6/97 12:49:28 PM, you wrote:
>
><combative sports and should not try to ruin our fun so they can integrate
>themselves with the guys.>>
>
>Wayne,
>It may be none of my business, but I think you may have misunderstood
>Dorene's original comment... quote "Take away the checking, and what you
>will
>have is a smart, fast and fun game of hockey to watch.
>
>She was referring to women's and girls hockey. Taken out of context, I
>understand where you would think otherwise. Don't worry, us girls don't want
>to take away anyone's God given right to pummel each other to your hearts
>content.
>Those women who want to play full check hockey, do so at their own risk as do
>the men.
>
>In a message dated 6/6/97 12:59:45 PM, you wrote:
>
><
>I am currently building a database of Mens and Womens Recreational Leagues in
>
>North America for a Web Site . If anybody knows of any adult leagues in their
>
>area send me an e-mail to email@hidden. Include the area code and
>phone number.
>
>Thanks a-lot.
>>>
>
>I don't get it... Why would you want to create a database of what you termed
>to be "SHINNY" hockey? (See your quote below.)
>
><<
>Without hitting forget the
>goalie and create a basketball size net. The game would be shinny.
>>>
>
>(This message is not meant to step on any cyber-toes. Just pointing out a
>contradiction of terms.)
>email@hidden
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:46:24 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Maura Grogan
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: San Diego Tournament
>Message-ID:
>
> Hello All -
> The San Diego Women's hockey league is trying to sneak in one more
> tournament for this summer - Labor Day weekend 1997. If we can get
> enough interest it will be a go.
> For specific tournament information and contacts, check out:
> http://iquest.com/~paries/tourny/hockey.html, and/or Andria's web
> tournament site:
> http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~andria/Text_files/tournaments_USA.txt. If
> you only have email access, let me know and I will give you the
> information.
> Thanks.
>
> Lynn Bassler
> email: email@hidden
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 97 09:07:00 -0700
>From: "HARRIS, zharris"
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: papers on women's hockey
>Message-ID:
>
>I am looking for papers on women's hockey: it's growth, obstacles and
>future
>
>(I've heard that there have been a few written)
>
>Can anyone help????? Thanks in advanced!!
>
>Write to me privately at:
>email@hidden
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 97 12:03:12 -0500 (CDT)
>From: email@hidden
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: Girls teams in Dallas/Fort Worth Area
>Message-ID:
>
>>Help....
>>
>>I am looking for a place for my daughter to play hockey.
>>
>>So far, I haven't found a place for her. I keep running into to the
>>"no girls allowed" crap....
>>
>>So please help me be a hockey dad.
>>
>>I can be reached at
>>email@hidden
>>email@hidden
>>or on the list.
>>
>>Thanks..
>>
>>
>Are you in Dallas? If so, I'm confused.... My daughter, who is 16, has been
>playing in Dallas since she was 5. The last 3 seasons she played on both a
>coed team and a pure girls team. I would be glad to help you if I can.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Tom Kraemer
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 12:43:20 -0500
>From: "James D. Lorino"
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
>Message-ID:
>
>These are my final words on my original post. Sorry for the length, just
>needed to get this off my chest.
>
>Reasonable people can disagree...
>
>I'm no master of rhetoric, or the English language, but I thought my
>original post was quite clear and succinct. Sometimes I wonder if it was
>actually read. I have to respond to some comments (nothing controversial).
> Most replies were in agreement, and civil.
>
>>>Basketball leagues are classed by height, under 6', 6' to 6'6",
>unlimited. What
>>>is wrong with considering size when determining divisions in hockey?
>
>These are mainly recreational and gym rat leagues. I don't believe any of
>the size delimited pro leagues have prospered. Anyhow, I disagree with it.
>
>>>Tina Winkler Danzig wrote:
>>>Personally, I think we should just adhere to the Canadian rules, so that
>rules are the same wherever you >>play. We live close to Canada, so when
>we play them, whos rules do we play by?
>
>>>I agree with you that divisions by size won't work. I also agree with
>you about Hockey (and life!) is a >>competitive, rough, sometimes violent
>sport. Although I don't like the fact that it is thought of as >>violent,
>rough yes, but I personally think violence should be kept out of all sports.
>
>Here here Tina! I agree consistent North American rules would be great,
>whether I agree with the outcome or not. I never intended VIOLENT to be
>interpreted as a negative or fight related. I was just speaking of violent
>collisions, or a violent date with the net or posts.
>
>>>Jill wrote:
>>>I am 31 and new to hockey, but I VIVIDLY remember my HS lacrosse coach's
>solution to the cussing >>problem. A bit of good 'ol "reverse
>psychology." Punish the rest of the team, and you punish the >>offender.
>Everytime somebody utterred @#$% or *^*# , she would make the REST of the
>team run laps >>around the field, while the offender had to stand there and
>watch. This would make the offender feel so >>guilty, and cause such a
>fear of ostracism from the rest of the team, that there were almost ZERO
>repeat >>offenders.
>
>I LOVE IT! Will definitely use it.
>
>>>don't remember who wrote:
>>>Speak for yourself. Our girls team is made up of a group of wonderful,
>funny, athletic bunch of kids. >>I have heard a couple of mild oaths
>(nothing more than a parent dropping a glass on the kitchen floor) >>but
>that is it. Its the giggling, teasing, and fun that keeps these kids
>going. Sometimes I have to go >>into the locker room and drag my kid out
>because its getting late and I can't stay at the rink til >>midnight
>waiting for these kids to stop playing. On the ice, I have never hear a
>word, and there has >>never been a complaint. Each team is different.
>
>DUH!?! I believe my original statement said "our team" and "common." The
>whole point in posting is that I speak for myself. Common is more or less
>average - if you want to argue the social practices of teens, this is not
>the place. I will stand by that it is "common" for teens to experiment
>with language, clothes, etc. As for your team, congratulations! It is a
>strong statement for the parents and coaching. I applaud you.
>
>>>someone wrote:
>>>Excuse me, but can I point out that many sports are governed by size and
>not to make it a "rainbow >>coalition", is this elitist treatment on their
>part. Is not wrestling by weight? Is not boxing? >>Basketball
>(recreational) by height? Even Competitive Trail Riding is by weight
>divisions. Are these >>sports that you tiptoe through? OH NO, but these
>aren't hockey! Fine I was just pointing out that to >>give more equality
>to the sport, especially where girls are playing on coed teams, that size
>might be a >>factor. I also suggested this as a NONSEXIST approach,
>because size IS a factor in hockey (maybe not >>height) for both a female
>player or a male player. ASK Fleury or Kariya or Gretzky.
>
>I will respond with Jules response, couldn't have said it better myself.
>Go Jules!
>
>BTW, a member of this list, Jennj, is a competitive mountain biker (hi
>jenn). Any thoughts Jenn?
>
>>>Jules wrote:
>>>There is no corollary between wrestling or boxing and "hockey". Hockey
>is a sport (or game, if you >>like) where the victory is gleaned by a
>*team* scoring more goals-and defending their own zone better->>than the
>other team. Wrestling and boxing are each "mano a mano" contests, where
>the whole point is to >>use one's body in a forceful, physical manner
>against one's opponent in order to win a singular "I'm the >>strongest
>dude" title. That is the reason there are size classes in boxing and
>wrestling. Basketball's >>objective is to put the ball thru a hoop which is
>10 feet high, so it is glaringly obvious that a taller >>person would thus
>have an advantage over a shorter one.
>
>Additionally, these sports/games show that there is an inherent advantage
>in the size and physical characteristics. There is no proof that size, or
>lack of, is a distinct advantage in hockey.
>
>>>We live in a area where there are NO GIRLS TEAMS, other than the state
>>>team.
>
>I will offer up my ideas in another post.
>
>>>I didn't reply to the list to be flamed here.
>
>My point of view - my post was in no way a flame, nor were many of the
>others. You seem to have launched the first flame.
>
>>>Jules wrote:
>>>There will never be *equality* in hockey (or any sport) for all
>genders/colors/ages/sizes/sexual >>preferences- get used to it, and you'll
>do allright. ;)
>>>
>>>Peggy wrote:
>>>The rules change yearly. Rules are there to create equality, otherwise
>we would not need rules in the >>game.
>
>RULES to create EQUALITY?? No No No No. Rules are created to maintain the
>game within the guidelines designed by the governing body. What are you
>looking for??? Equality?? Rule 2.3.87: Faster skaters must wait 2 (two)
>strides before approaching slower skaters (2:00 minor).
>
>THE LACK of EQUALITY is the whole point of SPORT! If they were equal,
>games would last forever or end in ties.
>
>>>Peggy wrote:
>>>If that is the case then why all the discrimination cases that are
>hitting the courts and the whole >>Title IX issue???? We have come a long
>way baby, but we have far to go even yet.
>
>C'mon Peggy, drop the Gloria Steinam attitude (remember, I am the father of
>three girls, no boys. Nothing like that to make you realize your own
>chauvinistic tendencies). Yes, there are inequality in athletic
>opportunities for women.
>
>Title IX issues deal with the inequality in the structure of athletic
>programs and the opportunities for young women. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH
>THE RULES AND STRUCTURE OF INDIVIDUAL SPORTS.
>
>>>Peggy wrote:
>>>*Intelligent Automation Systems, Inc.
>>>From my opinion the only thing intelligent at your company, must be the
>automated systems. IMHO!
>
>Completely uncalled for. Well, IMHO, and speaking for myself, you owe
>Jules an apology. Slander is the last refuge of somebody with nothing to
>say.
>
>>>Jules replied:
>>>There you go again, making my point for me. You sound awfully bitter
>about having been born a woman... >>prejudice exists even for "white
>males". It's part of life. If I had held your views on prejudice
>>>against women, the option of being a Mechanical Engineer or graduating
>Summa Cum Laude from MIT would >>never exist for me. (Neither would being
>the Female Captain of an all-male hockey team in the Boston >>area.)
>
>I applaud Jules for not stooping to the slander level. But, If you did,
>something like "go burn your bra somewhere else" would have worked. Sorry
>Peggy, I'm not as strong as Jules.
>
>>>Rich/Erin wrote:
>>>The Shooting Star girls' program played in Chicago's top travel league
>(NIHL) as squirts, pee wees, and >>bantams.
>
>Good work! Our squirt team was crushed by the Sparks (I believe a level
>below the Flames) in the first game of this past season. Good experience
>for our girls though.
>
>Well, thank you for listening to my venting.
>
>Speaking for myself...
>
>-----------------
>James D. Lorino
>email@hidden
>Brookfield, WI USA
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:37:05 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Jessica Yeo
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: papers on women's hockey
>Message-ID:
>
>
>
>Go to the USA Hockey website. The have a bit there.
>
>
>
>---"HARRIS, zharris" wrote:
>>
>> I am looking for papers on women's hockey: it's growth, obstacles
>and
>> future
>>
>> (I've heard that there have been a few written)
>>
>> Can anyone help????? Thanks in advanced!!
>>
>> Write to me privately at:
>> email@hidden
>>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 16:10:24 +0000
>From: Kelly Connelly
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: Women's Shoulder Pads
>Message-ID:
>
>Jules Smith wrote:
>>
>> Caroline-
>> Have you checked out the Cooper shoulder pads for women?
>> I bought them because they had the plastic shell(it's removeable) and
>> excellent upper-arm coverage (they come down OVER my elbow pads). The only
>> feature I have any problem with is the rise of the shoulders- it's a bit
>> high for my liking, but other people I know like 'em high!
>>
>> Jules #8
>
>Yeah...I bought the Cooper shoulder pads last winter and also found
>them a bit too high in the shoulders...felt like I was a football
>player, not a hockey player. It interfered a bit with my
>maneouverability on ice. Herman Munster on skates!! But I definitely
>felt well protected, good collar-bone padding too.
>
>Kelly
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:49:06 -0400
>From: Tina JW Danzig
>To: "INTERNET:email@hidden"
>
>Subject: Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
>Message-ID:
>
>James,
>
>You can vent anytime.
>
>Tina
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:24:09 -0500
>From: "Rich + Erin Malinowski"
>To:
>Subject: Re: Age/Size/Attitudes - My final comments
>Message-ID:
>
>The Sparks are actually the girls teams of the Flames.
>
>----------
>> >>Erin wrote:
>> >>The Shooting Star girls' program played in Chicago's top travel league
>> (NIHL) as squirts, pee wees, and >>bantams.
>>
>> Good work! Our squirt team was crushed by the Sparks (I believe a level
>> below the Flames) in the first game of this past season. Good experience
>> for our girls though.
>>
>> Well, thank you for listening to my venting.
>>
>> Speaking for myself...
>>
>> -----------------
>> James D. Lorino
>> email@hidden
>> Brookfield, WI USA
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:54:30 -0400 (EDT)
>From: email@hidden
>To: email@hidden
>Subject: Re: Girl's attitudes and age/size classification
>Message-ID:
>
>I agree with Kellie and James - if you start having kids play according to
>size, there will be resentment all over the place. Hypothetically, if this
>had happened to me, I think I would have been held back. Although I started
>playing in high school (2 yrs) I didn't really start improving rapidly until
>I got to college and played with and against girls who were much bigger than
>me. I'm 5'3" (maybe) about 110 lbs. and I can hold my own against men and
>women.
>
>Letting the kids play according to age should help the girls be stronger and
>"independent" (for lack of a better word) and it should teach the boys that
>girls can play too. Overall, this should help them understand each other
>better and bring about a stronger sense of self-esteem. Once you split up
>according to size, those who are smaller (especially the boys who have pushy
>parents) will feel a lack of self-worth because they will wonder why they
>couldn't grow faster or more. I don't think it would affect the girls much,
>except I am still trying to figure out how breaking the teams up according to
>size would HELP get more girls involved.
>
>They are going to have to play together, big or small, later in life, why
>change that?
>
>Take it from someone who is picked on almost daily for being short (I'm
>25!!!)- I would hate it if teams had always been broken up according to size.
>I was always picked last anyway because they thought I was weak (but I
>wasn't).
>
>Jenn
>
>PS - What happens if they are broken up according to size and one of the kids
>has a huge growth spurt? Then they have to leave their team, where they've
>evened out skill-wise and go to a "bigger" kids team where they may be
>stronger (or weaker) in skills.
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 597
>*********************************
>
------------------------------
End of WOMEN-IN-HOCKEY Digest 600
*********************************